SAMHAIN

Tír na nÓg - Message Board: General - An extension of Chat: SAMHAIN
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Calypsopoet on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 04:58 am:

Samhain marks the Celtic New Year and the beginning ot the Agricultural year. ( which I do not understand), it is the harvest.
It was celebrated with great fervour. In ancient times, all the fires of Ireland were extinguished and relighted from the one kindled upon the hill of Tlachtga (Tara) I think. The festival is a long surviving one; not only has it recognizably survived as a popular folk custom within the Celtic communities, it has spread to America as 'trick or treat'
Celtic festival was also adopted as the basis for the Christian festival of All Souls.

I wish to beg the pardon of that little white mouse PINKY!
Aaanddd I have more if you are interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Calypsopoet on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 02:34 pm:

Saint Odillo of Cluny adapted it in 998 and this usage spread to the rest of the Western Christian world.
The festival of Samhain has been augmented by the additional celebrations of Guy Fawkes' bonfires and fireworks on 5 November


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Shae on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 03:59 pm:

Hi, CP

The reason the Celtic year is so confusing is that they looked at time differently to us. Their beginnings were our ends. So, the Celtic new year started at this time of year, just as our modern year is coming to a close. Their day started at dusk and ended the following dusk. Similarly, their agricultural year started at the end of the previous growing season.

Please give us more on Samhain, if you have any.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Guest on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 02:28 am:

Samhain is a time of reflection
The harvest is harvested
The sun sets
The drums drummed
The bonfire lit
The souls of the dearly departed and ancestors are welcomed into the homes.

So share your thoughts, relive the past on Samhain.
Reflect into the past into the ancient Celtic lore,
And share your visions.

Pinky


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Guest on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 02:34 am:

The question however is an explanation of
Hogmanay, another Celtic/Scots holiday, not Samhain.

Share your knowledge or research on Hogmanay. I would be most interested when the celebration of Hogmanay is near, I believe 31st December.

Pinky


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Calypsopoet on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 02:36 am:

Samhain is a treshold for sprits to enter the Earthly plain. It is the unncanny day when things happen. From ancient times wearing of masks and costumes was to confound the wandering dead into imagining it was a fellow spirit under the disguise.
Keeping vigle for the dead is still observed in folk customs throughout Britain and Ireland On All Hallow's Eve, Halloween. Candels are left burning in windows to light the way or ward of bad spirits On All Souls Day the soulers of Cheshire and Shropshire still circlulate the country side with a hobby horse, the original NIGHTMARE.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Calypsopoet on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 02:00 am:

Samhain, pronounced, "Souwee" or in Scots Garlic, "Sha-vin".
After the apples are picked the year begins again with it's dark winter, while the sun rests and furtility is renewed.
Me, I have a grand interest in the solstice, Spring moves along, till, the solstice of fall. They are the fundimental elements of our calendar.
The ancients had a stone calender. The days and night were registered inside the openings of Farie Mounds, which actualy were the extordinary efforts of the indiginous people of these isles to understand the concept of time. Which was an elemental step into civilization.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Guest on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 05:30 pm:

Where did jack-o-lanterns come from? I would like to know if this practice continues in Ireland with turnips or is simply an American thing? Here is an article written by Shel Williams of the Post Register:

The tradition of carving vegetables and putting lights inside them came from Ireland---only there it was turnips, not pumpkins, and the light was a glowing coal, not a candle.

The legend goes that Jack a drinking man, met the devil on the day that was to be his last here on Earth. He bargained with the devil to buy him one last drink. When the devil changed himself into a sixpence to pay for the drink, Jack pocketed him instead. The devil couldn’t escape for quite a while because there was also a silver cross in Jack’s pocket. When he did escape, Jack was able to trick him again and made the devil promise not to come back for him---ever.

However, Jack didn’t last much longer. When he died, his shady past kept him out of heaven---and the devil couldn’t take him in, either.

Doomed to walk the earth until Judgment Day, Jack begged for a light to guide his way. The devil tossed him a coal from his fires. Jack put it into a turnip and carried it along the roads at night. ‘Jack of the lantern’ ---or jack-o-lantern---became the symbol of a damned soul.

When the Irish immigrated to America in the late 1840’s, they brought this tradition with them. Pumpkins were plentiful and easier to carve, so the pumpkin became the traditional lantern. The lanterns were placed outside homes to scare away the spirits of the dead that were believed to walk freely among the living on All Hallow’s Eve---or Halloween.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Lostsoul on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:11 am:

I can't remember the details, and my teacher would be ticked *g*, but it was vegetables (turnips, etc), but it was a good thing....like inviting the spirits of your ancestors in. It only became a negative thing AFTER Christianity took over. If I remember the exact details, I'll let you know.

=)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Lacie on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:35 pm:

hmmm .. cant tell you here what *souwee* would mean here........

Lions and Tigers and frogs, ohhh my!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Monadh on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 08:04 am:

According to my research it's actually pronounced Sow-in..(but Sowee is pretty close...kinda a mix tween the two)...and Beltaine for those interested is pronounced byoltunnah...of course my research isn't concrete....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Lostsoul on Sunday, October 29, 2000 - 01:50 am:

The Sow-in is right, but I don't believe I've heard "byoltunnah"....sounds like bowl of tuna! *L*


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Shae on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 12:50 pm:

I found some folklore about Samhain in a book by Kevin Danagher called “The Year in Ireland.” This is a synopsis of one West Limerick man’s memories.

Oíche Shamhna or Oíche na sprideanna was the name applied to the Eve of November the first. Sixteen miles to the east it was púca night. It was called Oiche na sprideanna (night of the spirits) and púca night because people believed that the ghosts of the dead and the fairies were active then. The púca was supposed to spit on blackberries and other fruit, and children were forbidden to touch fruit after Nov. 1 so they wouldn’t be affected.

The old people believed that the fairies were let loose on the night and their breath blasted every growing plant. Food offerings were left outside and the last portion of potato or corn was left in the ground for the fairy host to ensure their favour in the coming year. Holy water was sprinkled on animals. Shopkeepers would give a tuille (tilly = an extra little) of snuff or tobacco in honour of the departed. In some places, candles were lit on the night after November 1st, one for each deceased relative at a window of the room where death occurred.

The belief that the dead can return was still firmly rooted. “Go to the churchyard gate if you have the courage,” said old Dicky Ned, “and you will meet there the friend you love.” The last woman to be hanged in Limerick had killed her husband with the intention of marrying a young man. She used all her influence to escape trial, but the evidence was overwhelming and she went to the gallows. A few days before the execution, she sent for the young man and told him she would come to marry him on November Eve. At her execution, people remarked on how much attention she paid to her attire. She even wore “a pair of fashionable brogues with silver buckles.” On the last night of October, the young man dressed himself in his best finery and waited outside. To their horror, his family heard a pair of footsteps approaching the house, and two pairs running away. Next day he was found drowned.

People who had been wronged also came back to haunt the wrongdoer at Halloween. The storyteller relates how he had to accompany a man home from the pub each Halloween because he had wronged a, now dead, widow woman by leading her to believe the cow he sold her was in calf, and she used to accost him each All Souls’ Eve. The storyteller reckoned that this fear of ghostly visitations probably gave rise to the custom of pretending to be ghosts “with a hat of ancient days or shawl of a grandmother” to frighten young relatives.

Many people took steps to protect their property and livestock from the fairies. A wooden cross was inserted in the thatch and any animal that seemed unduly restless was spat upon to drive away the evil spirit.

Since the evil spirits were abroad, those who wanted to avail of their services to help them win at cards or deprive their neighbour of his profits could make pacts with them. The only way to do this, apparently, was by finding a briar that had rooted at both ends and crawling through the arch while making their evil wish. One story tells of a music-crazy man who’s wish was to be a perfect musician. After he crawled through the briar, he found a violin with just one string. He tried to fit it with the other three, but never succeeded. When he played it with the single string, though, it played only one, but most magical, tune that everybody said was fairy music. The violin eventually made its way to France where the same tune was played by a musician every night for thirty years, to the delight of the French Court, until the original music-crazy man died and was given the Last Rites. “The fiddle string snapped with resounding force and bow and violin fell asunder!”

Well, it’s late and I’m just about to fall asunder, so g’night all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Shae on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 02:33 pm:

Here's a bit more-

Many other customs all over the Celtic lands (Wales, Brittany, Ireland, Scotland, Isle of Man and Cornwall) involve fire and stones and divination - for example, big bonfires were lit, all household fires were extinguished and were then relit from the bonfire to welcome back the spirits of the dead (already mentioned by Calypsopoet). In Wales people would then place a marked stone in the ashes of the dead bonfire and go back to find them in the morning. If they found their own mark this was a sign of great fortune for the coming year; if their stone wasn't found at all they would die within the year. A variation on this was practiced in Scotland where a ring was made on the ground from the ashes of the bonfire, and each member of the community would place a stone on the ring. If in the morning their stone had been removed or was damaged this foretold that the person would die within the year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Monadh on Wednesday, November 1, 2000 - 08:32 am:

Wishing the best of times to all! Merry Samhain...*S*...and on a further note I would like to mention that while Samhain is an agricultural festival by all means...it's nature is deeply rooted in the pastures...for it was this time of year traditionally that the 'livestock' were rounded up..'culled'...and from amoungst them it was decided which were to be slaughtered for winter meals,...and which were going to be set aside for breeding....and on yet a further note..I have seen how wise it is to follow the advice about the blackberries,for around the time of Samhain here they tend to mold on the vine....not too pleasant for eating...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Shae on Wednesday, November 1, 2000 - 10:54 am:

From today's Irish Times:

A Co Meath author has claimed that Hallowe'en originated in Hill of Ward, just a mile outside Athboy.

After four years of research, Mr John Gilroy - whose book on the subject is published this week, says the ancient Celtic Fire Festival began at Tlachtga, or the Hill of Ward, just a mile from Athboy.

The site is in a field, unexcavated, and without even a plaque to inform visitors of its important role in our ancestors' lives.

Hallowe'en marks the start of the Celtic New Year and it was at Tlachtga that the great winter fire was lit at the onset of winter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Gypsywench on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 02:54 am:

i wonce read that that Pagans gathered around bonfires and alters to pray and dance to fairies. this was called "dancing night" in the book. was it a real practic or did the book make it up?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Lacie on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 07:29 am:

the book made it up


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Gypsywench on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 03:16 pm:

ok, thanks Lacie.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Gypsywench on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 07:38 pm:

i thought the book made it up, but i wasn't sure. to tell you the truth it didn't make sense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Heather on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:24 pm:

Samhain will be here soon! I am so excited. The weather is
beginning to change and I can feel it approaching with the chill
in the air and the waning day light. Samhain is my favorite time
of year. All the trees turn bright flaming colors, yellows, reds
and oranges. And the apples and everything else are brought in
with the harvest. I love the crisp scent in the air, like fresh fall
apples! I wish I had a home in the country where I could throw a
Samhain festival complete with a bonfire, folk dancing, games,
and music. I don't think the town ordinances allow bonfires. He
he.

What sort of traditions do you all have for Samhain? Please do
share.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Gypsywench on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 12:20 pm:

::crawls out from her rock:: Well I used to take some of my younger wiccan friends out tricker treating and then come back to lead a rite. Though this year that's not an option. I might be going to a group rite with my boyfriend (he's agnostic).

Sorry for being so hidden. I haven't had much of a life lately. I am alive really.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Heather on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 10:43 pm:

Thanks Gypsywench.

I once attended a fantastic Samhain celebration. We had a large
bonfire, danced traditional square dances, bobbed for apples,
played other old games, and told stories about Samhain. Along
with treats like apple cider, candied apples, and popcorn.

I don't know what it is, but this time of year really gets into my
veins. When the nights get nippy and the leaves on the trees
begin to turn yellow, orange, and red, I get butterflies in my
stomach. It's so exciting to me! The gourds and pumpkins in
my garden are turning ripe colors, and the edges of the leaves
have been frost nipped! In a few weeks I'll be harvesting the
winter squash!


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